Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. No. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. So, I spread the wealth equally. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. New Springfield Saint. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. What more can you ask for? No, but it was never designed to be. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. That said, and this being Wilson, dont expect some off-the-rack experience with the gun. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. JavaScript is disabled. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Im knocking quite a few off my backlist to be sure. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. Whereas releasing the bolt is aided by the larger platform, setting the lock means pressing down on the smaller end. You have entered an incorrect email address! In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). In use, it seemed to all but disappear. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). Subscriber Services. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Matte Black. I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. The Judge has been promoted! Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. Honey badger .300bo 5. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. I installed it on an AR carbine but ended up taking it off, because while it felt good in my hand, it just didnt look right to my eye. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. It was too short. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. We did, however, find the bolt catch to be weak. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . | The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. No problems except for the gas blowback. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. Brand: Springfield. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. .300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm Designed for rapid deployment from concealment, the MCX Rattler packs a punch in the .300 BLK configuration. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank.
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